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Post by coolbyrne on Jul 2, 2007 12:13:58 GMT -5
I've often wondered this, but until recently, haven't been able to identify the situation enough to articulate it. I think I have now. I think I may have put my finger on the tone of the majority of Bad Girls boards/sites, and it's made me wonder. See, the talk is always about how Simone is more popular than Mandana, and that's fine- to each their own. I'm not going to begrudge Simone popularity! But it has brought up an interesting question I'd like to pose to you all. Do you think that fans see Simone as a person/actress, but Mandana only as Nikki Wade? If so, why do you think that is? I bring this up because that is the "tone" I get when I visit Bad Girls sites- the discussion is about Nikki Wade and Simone Lahbib. Even fan sites that are purportedly actress sites and not character sites, when it comes to Mandana Jones, are Nikki Wade sites masquerading as MJ sites. Just look at the disproportionate amount of content of Nikki Wade info/pics/clips/etc. versus the amount of info/pics/clips/etc. of anything else she's done. Often, the Nikki Wade stuff outweighs all other work she's done- combined! It's not as if she didn't do anything before Bad Girls, and she's done stuff after Bad Girls. Same as Simone. But Mandana will always (at least, it appears so in the majority of cases) Nikki Wade to people. Dismissing whether or not that 's good or bad (because I think strong cases can be made for either choice), I wonder why that is. It's not like Simone has played anyone so different from Helen that it would counter-balance the Helen role. In fact (and here's where I'll get accused of bashing), the more I see of Simone's work, the more I think she's just playing herself. (Take that with a grain of salt, as I have not seen all of her work.) I see little difference between her role as Helen Stewart and her role as Alex Fielding, for instance. Yes, they are different CHARACTERS, but her approach to portraying them onscreen seems quite similar. And yet perhaps that's exactly why fans rarely label her as "Helen" first, "Simone" second- because there's a comfort and familiarity in everything she does. Helen and Alex and Simone are all the same person, so they all fall under the heading, "Simone". Whereas I look at the MJ clips we've posted and I see roles, not one actress. I would never look at Sara from "Coming Up for Air" and think, "Nikki Wade". I looked at that character and thought, "Mandana Jones". But then I look at her role in Robin Hood and don't think either "Nikki Wade" or "Mandana Jones"! Same with "London Bridge", "Holby City", etc., etc. In fact, when I see her in something like the Saturday Show, far removed from Nikki Wade, it startles me a bit, because I'm not used to seeing Just Mandana. I associate her with the role of Nikki Wade- I don't identify her that way. So it surprises me that a lot of fans DO, in a way I don't see with Simone. Or am I just talking out of my arse?
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Post by gingercat on Jul 2, 2007 13:04:32 GMT -5
I've often wondered this, but until recently, haven't been able to identify the situation enough to articulate it. I think I have now. I think I may have put my finger on the tone of the majority of Bad Girls boards/sites, and it's made me wonder. See, the talk is always about how Simone is more popular than Mandana, and that's fine- to each their own. I'm not going to begrudge Simone popularity! But it has brought up an interesting question I'd like to pose to you all. Do you think that fans see Simone as a person/actress, but Mandana only as Nikki Wade? If so, why do you think that is? I bring this up because that is the "tone" I get when I visit Bad Girls sites- the discussion is about Nikki Wade and Simone Lahbib. Even fan sites that are purportedly actress sites and not character sites, when it comes to Mandana Jones, are Nikki Wade sites masquerading as MJ sites. Just look at the disproportionate amount of content of Nikki Wade info/pics/clips/etc. versus the amount of info/pics/clips/etc. of anything else she's done. Often, the Nikki Wade stuff outweighs all other work she's done- combined! It's not as if she didn't do anything before Bad Girls, and she's done stuff after Bad Girls. Same as Simone. But Mandana will always (at least, it appears so in the majority of cases) Nikki Wade to people. Dismissing whether or not that 's good or bad (because I think strong cases can be made for either choice), I wonder why that is. It's not like Simone has played anyone so different from Helen that it would counter-balance the Helen role. In fact (and here's where I'll get accused of bashing), the more I see of Simone's work, the more I think she's just playing herself. (Take that with a grain of salt, as I have not seen all of her work.) I see little difference between her role as Helen Stewart and her role as Alex Fielding, for instance. Yes, they are different CHARACTERS, but her approach to portraying them onscreen seems quite similar. And yet perhaps that's exactly why fans rarely label her as "Helen" first, "Simone" second- because there's a comfort and familiarity in everything she does. Helen and Alex and Simone are all the same person, so they all fall under the heading, "Simone". Whereas I look at the MJ clips we've posted and I see roles, not one actress. I would never look at Sara from "Coming Up for Air" and think, "Nikki Wade". I looked at that character and thought, "Mandana Jones". But then I look at her role in Robin Hood and don't think either "Nikki Wade" or "Mandana Jones"! Same with "London Bridge", "Holby City", etc., etc. In fact, when I see her in something like the Saturday Show, far removed from Nikki Wade, it startles me a bit, because I'm not used to seeing Just Mandana. I associate her with the role of Nikki Wade- I don't identify her that way. So it surprises me that a lot of fans DO, in a way I don't see with Simone. Or am I just talking out of my arse? Not at all Coolbyrne...the first time I met Mandana I thought this is Mandana not Nikki Wade..not once have I thought of her as Nikki.
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Post by topcat on Jul 3, 2007 7:16:19 GMT -5
Really interesting post Coolbyrne and no I don't think your ar*e is talking ;D I think you've hit the nail on the head.
I think one of the factors is that Simone has always seemed more accessible to fans. Whatever role she's in, she manages to get lots of press inches. Yes, it's the same old stuff churned out but she's visible. She also uses interviews to talk about her husband, daughter, granny, bullying, her holiday haunts and breastfeeding issues. Maybe fans feel more connected because of this and feel like they know her. I think there is also an odd fascination with Ms Lahbib's accent. Roles without that familiar accent are rarely talked about, you'll find.
Mandana, on the other hand, is not interviewed as frequently and, when she is, tends to stick to the subject of the work she's promoting. She has rarely spoken about her signifcant others and certainly never named them in interviews. I was actually stunned that we ever found out her son is called Enzo because she seemed careful not to name him in the Ellen interview, referring to him as 'my boy'. She has always had a little air of mystery to fans I think.
Add to this the comfort that fans perhaps feel in seeing slight variations of a familiar theme with Simone, whereby Mandana looks/sounds/moves differently in almost every single role she's done. Yes, there are familiar mannerisms with Mandana but she sells me different performances in a way Simone does not. Take the recent London Bridge clip. Mandana looks very different to her Nikki days and not once do you think 'Nikki Wade' despite her being in a scene with Helen Stewart...sorry Simone!
Because of the slight mystery and because of the very different performances fans fall back on just Nikki because that is what they know best IMO.
I love the fact that your site is keen to reflect all Mandana's work and not just Nikki. Yes, it was a very important role for her but it is not the sum of her work. It always frustrates me when Mandana does a new role and the only discussion on other boards is about not liking her hair as much as 'when she was Nikki'. That's all people ever talk about.
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Post by bgfanusa on Jul 3, 2007 12:24:45 GMT -5
First off I want to say I think they are both very good actresses. On BG it was their unique chemistry together that made that coupling so enjoyable. Of course there was also good scripts, good camera angles and I look at it as the perfect storm because the sum of all parts added up to a great view.
That being said, I was more attracted to the Nikki character more. And...the more I saw of Mandana's work, the more respect I felt for her as a great actress.
I have read other message boards and found in the beginning that the Simone love was greater percentage wise than the Mandana love. As time went on, it started to change and become more balanced. There was even discussion that perhaps as the show became known in North America, more folks started to gravitate towards Nikki love. Why? It was speculated that this continent may appreciate more up front outspoken behaviour.
IMO is that Simone may have seemed more sexy to some...the character of Helen was presented as straight and meeting/getting to know Nikki set her on the course of being lesbian. That may have been more appealing perhaps to more folks out there at the get go than Mandana's portrayal which started as lesbian all the way. Both had tough roles to flesh out their characters. Their interplay was exceptional.
Simone has also had more exposure since her BG stint than Mandana. You are right in stating that Simone is out there more. Is it personal choice that Mandana is not doing as many roles? We will never know unless she tells us. I will say this...Mandana is a class act. I believe she is not as career driven as Simone. I also agree that she is acting different characters in different roles which makes her that much more appealing to me.
Is there still more love out there for Simone than Mandana? I don't really know. All I know is I always look forward to the possibilty of seeing Mandana in more stuff.
BTW...for those of you that check out AfterEllen...scribegrl has big love for Simone and is always pushing it on her recaps...
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Post by topcat on Jul 5, 2007 8:31:38 GMT -5
I just wanted to clarify that my comment about 'same old stuff churned out' was, in fact, in relation to interview content not performance.
I do stick by that comment and also the comment about 'variations on a familiar theme'. It is my personal view. I do think Simone is a good actress. She was excellent as Helen. I just don't see huge variety in other roles. It is not meant as an 'attack' but some may see it as 'a personal negative opinion'. I still watch Wire in the Blood and enjoy it.
I do believe that this familiarity of peformances (appearance/accent etc) and general media relationship contributes to the fact that messageboards are full of Simone and Nikki and not Mandana.
What i do find interesting is that posters will latch on to all the negativity (however small) regarding Simone and say that such criticism should not exist (therefore gagging open opinion as happens on other sites) and that they want to see positive Mandana comments. On 3 occasions now, posters have only really posted in response to criticism of Simone.
Thing is, a number of attempts have been made to start positive Mandana threads with regard to other roles, clips etc etc and no one joins in!
I see Mandana criticism on various other boards. One described her as 'no better than a highschool actress'. Another as 'wooden'. I shrug my shoulders and think 'each to their own'. I don't feel compelled to sign up and tell the posters to stop it.
Yes, I would love this site to concentrate on the Mandana appreciation but people need to join in for that instead of only posting whenever they see someone not totally sharing the Simone love.
Absolutely ;D
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Post by bgfanusa on Jul 5, 2007 10:33:13 GMT -5
Hey Topcat...I hear you...I so want to have active discussions about her roles. The only problem for me is the only other stuff I saw Mandana in was Coming up for Air. I thought she was fantastic. I got a big kick out of the Robin Hood clip that CB and RM supplied. Thanks so much for that. The point is the only stuff I have gotten to see Mandana in was BG and then the clips fans have provided on boards or youtube. I would love to hear more people contribute to their Mandana perceptions. Of course Mandana love IS what this board is about yeh? One more comment...I remember that Kohler commercial with Mandana handing the faucet to the designer. It was a clever commercial and I thought the lady with the faucet was ermmmm..ya know...hot! I had no idea it was Mandana because I had yet to see or know of BG. It seemed I felt some sort of familiarity with Nikki...I could not place it. Then saw the kohler clip after BG and it was a ahha moment!...Guess she had me at pulling that bloody faucet out of her handbag.
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Post by topcat on Aug 11, 2007 2:54:51 GMT -5
Hey Topcat...I hear you...I so want to have active discussions about her roles. Hey bgfanusa, I am hoping you ordered yourself a DVD and that we can commence the active discussion of all those other roles very soon
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Post by bgfanusa on Aug 11, 2007 8:22:23 GMT -5
Hey Topcat...I most certainly did!! Big thanks and kudos to RM and CB for doing that. ;D I can hardly wait to let the discussion begin...ermm...gotta get and watch the disk first.
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Post by topcat on Aug 11, 2007 15:47:41 GMT -5
So pleased you'll get to see all the roles bgfanusa. I think CUFA is a stand out because she is leading lady but I think you will see just how versatile Mandana is with the other roles. I was particularly impressed with Born & Bred because she plays a character 1 million miles away from Nikki in every sense. She's a timid, Lancashire 1950's housewife!
I will wait patiently for discussion to take place. ;D will we carry on here or start a new thread?
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Post by moskvaprof on Aug 13, 2007 14:04:35 GMT -5
I can remember having a discussion, away from any board, with another like-minded Mandana fan on this very topic and I think we both came to the conclusion that a large number of posters on the BG sites fell into the category of Nikki fans rather than Mandana fans.
I thought Simone portrayed Helen brilliantly, particularly in Series 1, but I've not be bowled over by any of her roles since BG as she has simply reminded me of Helen in every case. I totally agree that Helen, Alex and Simone come under the 'same person' heading and her fans are quite comfortable with that.
On the other hand, I'd go as far as to say that fans were disappointed not to see Nikki in CUFA, Holby City, Doctors, Powers, etc. and in my view this was shown in their refusal to acknowledge and discuss Mandana the actress. I'd go further to say that possibly some/many who saw Othello (especially those who saw it more than once!!) were expecting to see and meet Nikki and some had their illusions well and truly shattered.
I wonder if fans identify more with Simone because they are more on her level, so to speak. Take the dvd extras and interviews as an example, Simone is less serious and her interviews fairly basic. Mandana, on the other hand, is IMO much more interesting but perhaps a notch too high for some to follow and therefore they can only identify with the role she played.
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Post by bgfanusa on Aug 13, 2007 22:14:19 GMT -5
Mandana's interviews sealed the deal for me. I know CB and other posters have pointed to that. I'm not sure that I would want to say that folks that like Simone more are because they are on her level. It goes to a matter of taste. I'd never want to get into a spitting match over one is better than the other. We are all fans and choose to like who we do. I have Simone love, just more Mandana love!
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Post by gingercat on Aug 14, 2007 2:57:09 GMT -5
I wasnt well & truly shattered...my first thought when I saw her coming towards me was..'oh my god its Mandana'..then I was struck dumb!..I didnt once think of 'Nikki'..she didnt really want her photo taken until she had 'ironed 'her hair & promised me to come out after the show for photos which she did. ;D I watch Simone in whatever she has done but just see Helen all the time...Mandana is so different in everything she does. Just wish she would do some more..I see so many other roles with other actresses in them & think Mandana could have done that.
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Post by moskvaprof on Aug 14, 2007 11:42:42 GMT -5
Neither was I. I wasn't expecting to see or meet Nikki, I saw and met a normal human being who is a very talented actress. I did expect to see someone a tad taller though
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Post by topcat on Aug 15, 2007 2:10:31 GMT -5
Some good points. I do agree with Moskvaprof that there was/is a feeling that some fans who claim to be fans of Mandana the actress are really just Nikki fans. There was definately a reluctance to discuss her following roles. There was a very busy period, starting with CUFA, where Mandana was almost constantly on screen or stage. She had guest roles in 3 dramas plus leading lady in a series. Comments from "Mandana fans" (prolific posters on a Mandana specific site) included gems like 'much prefer Nikki's hair' or 'I had it on in the background and it seemed quite good' or 'I don't like Holby so I recorded it and will watch it one day'. Not the type of comments I would have expected from people who were on the front row to meet "Mandana" during Othello!
Absolutely! Wasn't that bizarre?? She does not come across as especially tall, does she? She seemed to tower above her co stars and looked an imposing figure and yet, in person, she didn't. I would almost describe her as 'slight' if that makes sense.
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Post by gingercat on Aug 15, 2007 2:31:31 GMT -5
I thought exactly the same..when she said she was 5'10 it seemed surprising..I also described her as slight...I have wondered since if she meant 5'10 in her shoes..but when I saw her she had flat shoes on & she was taller than me at 5'7.
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