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Post by coolbyrne on Jun 23, 2007 15:58:21 GMT -5
I was going to leave this alone, as it can easily descend into pettiness, but I decided I could probably get my thoughts across without the pettiness coming into it. I hope so, anyway. Keep in mind the reason I’m talking about it here and not at the source is because I’ve been banned from that board for having the temerity to ask where the money goes from all the monthly donations “disrupting the dynamics of the board”. Let it be known (or reiterated, because we post this on just about every page of the FC) that we don’t care if people take stuff from our site. In fact, we outright encourage it. For us, a fan site is not only a way to advertise our appreciation for someone, but is should also be something that gives back to the fandom. We are not the key holders to the Mandana Information Kingdom. No one is. That being said, giving credit where you’ve taken the item, if you’re going to post it elsewhere, would be nice. In fact, it’s proper ‘netiquette, as they say. So I ask abzug outright (yes, I’m naming names!) why go through the trouble of posting the URL to the new Green Flag advert on the N/H board if you’re not going to give credit? I mean, either hide the URL in a tag so that people can’t see it’s ripway.com/MANDANAFC or come right out and say where you got it from. Or was that your way of straddling the fence in the hopes of not offending either us or mj.net? And now to the big stuff. Where to begin? Does anyone really think it’s a coincidence that mj.net posted the Green Flag advert not 24 hours after we did?? Oh, right, I forgot- they were SO busy on their holidays and SO busy when they got back and had SO many computer problems and SO many social obligations that they couldn’t take 2 minutes to post the video. They had it, they just didn’t have the time to post it. Riiiight. But in less than 12 hours after abzug posted the link on the board, mj.net found the time to post it on their site! The kicker? They backdated it as June 11th, the day the adverts first started airing on British TV, to make it look like they had the adverts ON THAT DAY. Now, we don’t care who posts what first, because in the end, we hope all fans will get the information, but come on. Really? You’re that vindictive and that petty and that obsessed with being the key holders to the Mandana Information Kingdom that you’d go so far as to make it look like you posted the video first? (I think that might be rhetorical, but feel free to accept it as a genuine query.) When the fact of the matter is, we all know the only reason you get a morsel of information out of CAM is because you pester them to the extent that they give you whatever they have if only to get rid of you? For all the crowing about being an “official fan site”, wouldn’t you have posted that advert the second you had it? (I mean, pretending for a moment that you didn’t take it from our source, leading you to posting it the minute you had it anyway.) Isn’t it your role as the “official fan site” to be on top of things? To have the edge that other “unofficial” fan sites don’t? Sure, I understand that life catches up with people and sometimes there literally aren’t enough hours in a day. But you don’t need hours- transferring the video to postable format took RM about 15 minutes, and posting the video took me all of 10 seconds. (Imagine, in the time it takes me to type out h1.ripway.com/mandanafc/greenflagadvert.wmv that’s how long it takes to post the update. Literally.) With all your “inside knowledge”, how did you not know the adverts were coming up? And once you found out through whatever fan was nice enough to give you the head’s up (‘cause it certainly wasn’t CAM), why didn’t you go looking for it? Once we heard the news, we found a link and a photo in less than a day. (Funny, it’s the same photo YOU have on your site… but I don’t see a link to the article. Did you not want to reveal that your “inside source” is actually… the internet, just like the rest of us?) Five days later, we found the advert online, too! We immediately posted it on our site and then… miracle of miracles, less than 12 hours later, so did you! Wow!! What a coincidence! Except… you dated it June 11th, to make it look like you had it up there all along. You don’t update for weeks at a time (sometimes MONTHS!), and then when you do, you don’t even bother crediting the original source. I’m sure Mandana would be proud. If anyone feels like responding, debating, arguing, accusing, whatever, feel free. I’ve opened this folder up so that you don’t have to be a member to respond. So if anyone wants to hide behind the cover of anonymity, go right ahead. But I didn’t want anyone to think I’m just going off without giving anyone the opportunity to contradict on this matter.
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manjo
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Post by manjo on Jun 27, 2007 3:13:05 GMT -5
Well done Coolbyrne for your post on this subject. I have long thought the same about the other message board..they do like to think that they are the only ones that can post info about Mandana, I for one dont believe for one minute that Mandana gets in touch with them or CAM. I think that they only get info when they pester them. Would love to see some sort of reaction from MJ.net. either here or on their own board.
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Post by coolbyrne on Jun 27, 2007 11:16:36 GMT -5
To be fair, 99.9% of the time, I couldn't care less about the other site. They do their thing, we do our thing, and bygones be bygones, you know? But it was the backdating of the video date that did it for me. We worked diligently to get that information, on our own, without help from MJ or CAM, only to see it posted on another site as if they had done all the work. It's not about them taking it that bothers me- as I've said, we HOPE fans take our stuff! -but it's about presenting this blatantly false image of being "inside", or being "on top" of things, when clearly, they're not. This was a great quote from the N/H board by ILMJN: "We do have the ad ready to go in WMV and Real Player though for people once we get a chance to actually sit down."I don't know how much you know about computers, but I can assure you, in the time it took her to write that post, the videos could have been up, if she really had them ready to go. My suspicion? They took our wmv copy and wanted to convert it to RealPlayer but had to go out, so they couldn't post it right away. This, too, was great: "I can help here.
Our understanding is there are two separate adverts. The first one - as you've seen where she doesn't say anything - the second - supposedly later.... still no breakdown cover, she is most certainly then getting cranky and does have some (or at least one) line/s!
Now, so far we've only caught the first advert - haven't heard of anyone who has seen the second...... we don't know at this stage if they plan to show more of it in the sequence! So again, its a waiting game to see if it appears."That was posted on the morning of the 23rd (UK time). We had the 2nd advert up on the FC almost with 24 hours. Is there a difference between seeing it on TV and seeing it online? Does a TV appearance make it any more valid?? They knew we got the first advert from the 'net- wouldn't that indicate that perhaps the first place to find the 2nd advert would also be... on the 'net? Granted, it was EXTREMELY tricky to get, but isn't it your role as an official fan site to make an effort and get the information? Even just to say, "We've tried several online sources and have been unable to get it" would at least give some indication that you're working to find it. Of course, then they'd also have to explain why they couldn't get it and we could. So I suppose it's best just to put your head in the sand until the situation solves itself. It must have come as a bit of a shock to discover their extrapolation of the promo pic (where it looks like MJ's talking) didn't actually come to fruitation in the 2nd advert as they said. And how much insider knowledge ("I can help here") did one need to see that promo pic and figure out there must be at least another advert? The pic didn't match any moment in the first advert, so... wow, 1+1=2!! Why didn't CAM tell them about these adverts? If ILMJN talks to MJ as much as she insinuates she does, why didn't it come up in conversation? You only have to look at the absence of the 2nd Green Flag advert anywhere on their sites (mj.net, the message boards) to get the full picture, don't you? Where is it? You know what the problem is? If you look closely, there's a watermark on the bottom right corner of the video (The AdAge Group). If that video shows up on MJ.net, then they're busted for taking it from us, aren't they? (And they don't want to have to give credit to us, so they just won't bother posting it until they get their own copy, either online or when they (or a helpful fan) catch it on TV.) We found it on the 23rd and posted it on the 24th. If they've got inside information, why is it taking them so long to post their own copy? There hasn't even been a whisper on N/H or MJ.net of a 2nd advert being available! You know the other thing that makes me laugh? Either they (or friends) don't visit here/the FC (which I know from the abzug link of the first ad is entirely NOT true), or there's been some sort of gag order put on people about not bringing outside links/sources to the board without running them past the mods first. Still clinging on to the keys of the kingdom! Oh, they'll post it eventually, and we'll be given some excuse like their computer was in the shop, or they have a life and didn't have time, or Mandana forgot to tell them the last time they spoke, or CAM told them not to post it until it aired in the UK because it would be a copyright infringement, or they were waiting to find out from CAM if there was another advert CAM forgot to tell them about and they were going to post both at the same time if that was the case, etc., etc., etc. They've got an incredible talent for creating wool to pull over people's eyes. -coolbyrne
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Post by Mandana Fan on Jun 27, 2007 16:53:29 GMT -5
Great site! As an ardent Mandana fan let me thank-you personally for showing the second advert. It was nice see her in both the adverts even for a few precious seconds. BTW on the other board it's the mob mentality that rules the roost.
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Post by Guest on Jun 27, 2007 23:23:12 GMT -5
Just a clarification: I don't believe Mandana has an official site. There's a more popular one that's "recognized by Mandana," but nothing's official.
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Post by romanmachine on Jun 28, 2007 0:15:57 GMT -5
Just a clarification: I don't believe Mandana has an official site. There's a more popular one that's "recognized by Mandana," but nothing's official. Very true. There is no official site for Mandana, hence the quotes around "official fan site." You see, those are meant to denote the intimidating tactics used by that more popular site to bully some MJ fans into deferring to said popular site as if it were "official." Thank you for the clarification, though. I hope no one would think that such a eyesore could be an official website, regardless of its popularity. However, it's always good to nip any potential misunderstandings in the bud as soon as possible.
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Post by romanmachine on Jun 28, 2007 0:24:16 GMT -5
Great site! As an ardent Mandana fan let me thank-you personally for showing the second advert. It was nice see her in both the adverts even for a few precious seconds. BTW on the other board it's the mob mentality that rules the roost. Mandana Fan, you're very welcome. We can't promise to have everything that MJ's done, but what we do have, we'll share with everyone. I agree, it's great to see her again. Let's hope all the small stuff (EastEnders & the adverts) will lead to bigger things!
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Post by Guest on Jun 28, 2007 0:39:17 GMT -5
The quote I was looking at was
I'm just saying I don't think anyone has or is claiming to have an official site.
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Post by guest on Jun 28, 2007 1:33:12 GMT -5
I'm just saying I don't think anyone has or is claiming to have an official site. The problem is they behave as if they are an official site. They are just ordinary fans who appear to have had a bit of luck in engaging with both Mandana and CAM on occasion. Unfortunately, instead of it all being about all fans sharing the things they have in common (a respect and admiration for Mandana) they have taken the high ground and seem to take great pleasure in belittling fans. There have been demands for fans to stop contacting CAM for Mandana news "because it will jeapodize our contact with them". They have gone around other BG related sites and threatened posters about posting personal Mandana information "as this could damage our contact with her". What has this done? Very cleverly given them the key to all information. I think it's great that a fan site gets info from Mandana and/or her agent but what I object to is how they insinuate EVERYTHING comes from those sources. I don't understand why it's a failure to say 'we didn't know that. Thank you for telling us". There have been two recent examples of this. Green Flag and Random Quest. When a fan said her friend had seen Mandana in RQ they received a response that was along the lines of "we know Mandana hasn't worked recently so this is untrue" only to have to come back and admit she WAS in the drama. This seems to descend into posts like "WE DO HAVE A LIFE" as a retort. I swear that if I went onto a BG related site and posted "I saw Mandana walking down Chelsea high street yesterday wearing a blue dress" ILMJN would be on there within hours saying "we can confirm that Mandana was NOT in Chelsea High Street yesterday and does not own a blue dress. We are not prepared to discuss this or our conversations with Mandana as individuals.We would ask you to refrain from posting unconfirmed information as this could seriously affect our contact with her and as a result we will be unable to share future news with her fans" Coolbyrne, I love this site and am thrilled you have given Mandana fans somewhere else to post and co exist without feeling inferior.
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Post by Another guest on Jun 28, 2007 1:37:33 GMT -5
I'm just saying I don't think anyone has or is claiming to have an official site. The problem is they behave as if they are an official site. They are just ordinary fans who appear to have had a bit of luck in engaging with both Mandana and CAM on occasion. Unfortunately, instead of it all being about all fans sharing the things they have in common (a respect and admiration for Mandana) they have taken the high ground and seem to take great pleasure in belittling fans. There have been demands for fans to stop contacting CAM for Mandana news "because it will jeapodize our contact with them". They have gone around other BG related sites and threatened posters about posting personal Mandana information "as this could damage our contact with her". What has this done? Very cleverly given them the key to all information. I think it's great that a fan site gets info from Mandana and/or her agent and understand the desire for accurate information but what I object to is how they insinuate EVERYTHING comes from those sources and that they can control the world wide web in relation to Mandana. I don't understand why it's a failure to say 'we didn't know that. Thank you for telling us". There have been two recent examples of this. Green Flag and Random Quest. When a fan said her friend had seen Mandana in RQ they received a response that was along the lines of "we know Mandana hasn't worked recently so this is untrue" only to have to come back and admit she WAS in the drama. This seems to descend into posts like "WE DO HAVE A LIFE" as a retort. I swear that if I went onto a BG related site and posted "I saw Mandana walking down Chelsea high street yesterday wearing a blue dress" ILMJN would be on there within hours saying "we can confirm that Mandana was NOT in Chelsea High Street yesterday and does not own a blue dress. We are not prepared to discuss this or our conversations with Mandana as individuals.We would ask you to refrain from posting unconfirmed information as this could seriously affect our contact with her and as a result we will be unable to share future news with her fans" Coolbyrne, I love this site and am thrilled you have given Mandana fans somewhere else to post and co exist without feeling inferior.
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Post by romanmachine on Jun 28, 2007 1:45:48 GMT -5
The quote I was looking at was I'm just saying I don't think anyone has or is claiming to have an official site. Oh, you're absolutely right. No one has claimed official status. Literally. But, there again, that's why Coolbyrne put quotations around the phrase. That more popular site doesn't actually say they officially represent Mandana, but they do try to put a stranglehold on the fandom - hosting content without acknowledging the original source (which gives the impression that everything on the site comes from them), actively discouraging (in some cases, bullying) other Mandana fans from posting about their experiences with her and/or knowledge of her work, dismissing any news of Mandana that isn't discovered by them, etc. All of that gives a definite impression to the fandom of their status as "official", if not in name, then in spirit. The point that Coolbyrne was trying to make was, for all the chest thumping they do as the 'end all be all' of MJ on the internet, why weren't they right on top of things with the Green Flag adverts? Actually, the overall point wasn't that, but rather - why all the deception, why all the posturing? If you're truly a fan of Mandana, to the point of making a website for her, why not encourage others to join in the fandom, instead of using the woman as a way to bolster your ego and internet "status?" It's pathetic and, most of all, disrespectful to the actress they pretend to support.
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Post by Mandana Fan on Jun 28, 2007 14:11:41 GMT -5
Speaking of bullying fans, I remember when Mandana gave birth , a UK fan broke the news by posting it on the messageboard. Both Sara and Jayne of MJNet were very angry with the said fan for posting it without telling them first and they deleted her post and when she and another member complained about it both of them were promptly banned from the board. So you can see they were the last ones to find out as usual!!
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Post by bgfanusa on Jun 28, 2007 14:21:25 GMT -5
Hiya. Just wanted to let you know that I certainly noticed you were the first to post the MJ adverts. I also noticed that the board in question appeared to have gotten it from you a day later after some posters said they could get it. It is sad all this occurs when the thing we all have in common is we are all fans and that is why we make up boards (thank you CB and RM) look at boards and even post to boards. We are all fans of a great actress and for me a great show. No one should infer a monopoly on the fact we all love the same darn thing. I had noticed warning postings previously of clips the other site said they got from MJ and how a rude poster put them all around the internet so they would perhaps not post other stuff later or somehow control the postings. I found that interesting. I hope that the next time you post ahead of the other site, they recognize and thank you for it. Well, it would be better to be posting about what we love most about MJ and not this stuff. Thanks for providing the content....
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Post by coolbyrne on Jun 28, 2007 17:43:19 GMT -5
*dies of laughter!* ... but did you have to use blue?? Ah, yes, the infamous "London Bridge" leak on YouTube. And what a mature way they decided to deal with it- because one person had the audacity to post a clip that in fact was illegal to post by mj.net in the first place(*), let's punish... EVERYONE ELSE! Believe me, it had nothing to do with them being worried they'd get caught for posting something that they don't actually own (we do it all the time! ) or CAM finding out the clip given in confidence (ha!) had been leaked all over the 'net. They want to be the only door you can open to get Mandana information/clips, etc. Unfortunately for them, this is the age of the internet- if you think you can block access to others getting information and/or keep everything for yourself, you might have better luck holding a fistful of water in your hand without spilling a drop. What really made me laugh was how some of the regulars on that board got mad at the "leak"! Instead of taking a moment to realize how bogus MJ.net's "power" is, instead of realizing the more that information has a chance to spread the more it has of reaching people, they were all angry! Of course, they're the same posters who have no problems accepting the fact that two websites cost $100 A MONTH to run, and have no problems when it comes to donating money to pay for not only those two websites, but (at last count) the five OTHER sites under those servers; one being a Shania Twain site(!), and one being under someone else's ownership name, meaning they're outsourcing their own paid server to someone and still asking N/H fans to pay! You know, I have to admit, I opened this thread up for anonymous posting as a service to MJ.net supporters- I didn't think it was fair to go on a rant about MJ.net while hiding behind a posting restriction, and I didn't think it was fair to ask them to become members of this board in order to bitch at me or defend MJ.net. I didn't think that people would take the opportunity to anonymously vent in agreement with me! (*They do not own the copyright on the clip, and even if Mandana herself gave it to them, to be downright legally technical about it, she doesn't own the copyright, either.)
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Post by Another guest on Jun 29, 2007 2:01:26 GMT -5
I agree with the poster who said but that is the whole problem with the other site. The webmistresses are just fans too but they seem to take pleasure in constantly reprimanding other fans who post there and reminding them of how lucky they are that they keep the site running. Not satisfied with that, they jackboot around other sites demanding info be taken down or that pictures and footage from their site be only displayed there. Whenever someone questions something they don't like or their hold on information is undermined they seem to either threaten that they have exclusive stuff that they won't now share (as with London Bridge) or they dig out another signed picture to raffle Does anyone think that, by association, egos over there may have actually had an adverse effect on how some fans view Mandana?
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