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Apr 11, 2007 8:21:58 GMT -5
Post by coolbyrne on Apr 11, 2007 8:21:58 GMT -5
Created specifically to move the Simone Lahbib stuff to a more appropriate area of the board, but can be used to talk about other actors, politicians, athletes, writers, etc. I've brought these over from the CURVE thread- From mjay, « Reply #41 on Today at 12:11am » (Today, being April 10th) And topcat's response- « Reply #42 on Today at 4:30am » (Apr.10th) A bit confusing, but better housekeeping. -coolbyrne
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mjay
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People
Apr 11, 2007 8:44:39 GMT -5
Post by mjay on Apr 11, 2007 8:44:39 GMT -5
It's weird to me that my posting on the other thread with Jenny and the made up view of Mandana is being spun in such strange ways. It doesn't matter that nobody has ever said those things. The point is that someone could easily interpret her words/actions/inactions and come up with those nasty conclusions. As her fans, we don't make those conclusions. And we'd need a heck of a lot more than what 'Jenny' gave us to sway us from our convictions.
i do think that people who hold misinformed opinions about Simone should try to gather more info, rather than accepting their opinions as fact. 'Bombard the journalist' is such an exaggeration its silly, but my point wasn't silly at all. It's simply ethically wrong imo to say negative things about Simone or anyone (and i've only quoted one example but there are a handful all over this site) and yet be unwilling to learn more that might sway that biased opinion.
for god's sake, i'm not trying to create a fan perception problem with Mandana. That's just a wrong reading of that other post. Totally unfair.
And i get that this is a little site with a dozen people marching in lockstep with positive opinions about Mandana and some weird grudge about Simone (but maybe really about another board where y'all were kicked off for negative, bullying behavior (shocking, that)).
But even here it'd be cool if people could take an outsider's view and really consider it rather than twisting it into odd conclusions designed to undermine very valid points.
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Apr 11, 2007 9:48:12 GMT -5
Post by coolbyrne on Apr 11, 2007 9:48:12 GMT -5
It's weird to me that my posting on the other thread with Jenny and the made up view of Mandana is being spun in such strange ways. It doesn't matter that nobody has ever said those things. The point is that someone could easily interpret her words/actions/inactions and come up with those nasty conclusions. As her fans, we don't make those conclusions. And we'd need a heck of a lot more than what 'Jenny' gave us to sway us from our convictions. But the point is, the reason we don't make those conclusions is two-fold. First, we're fans, so naturally we're going to have an inherent predispostion to giving Mandana the benefit of the doubt. (As Simone fans do with Simone.) Second -and this is the real crux of the thing- interpretation is one thing, a pattern of behaviour is another, and this is where the line gets drawn between Mandana and Simone. We would need more than Jenny's opinion, true. But that's the thing- I feel we've gotten many "Jennys" when it comes to Simone. In my opinion. See, this is where another problem lies- you have deemed your opinion as fact. "...people who hold misinformed opinions about Simone should..." How do you know they're misinformed? Have you contacted every interviewer she's ever had contact with and asked them to verify their story? Have you contacted every fan she's ever dismissed after she's felt she's given them her 2 minutes of time? I'm not saying she's a bad person- I'm saying she's human. Just as I'm saying I don't hold Mandana on this high pedestal; I've just never been given reason to not admire her. But that's me. My own opinion. And you're welcome to share it or not. I'm not going to try and persuade you either way. Does Mandana have a documented history of not answering fan mail? Yep. Admitted. Now what? Actually, RM and I were kicked off a board- for questioning their continued begging of board members to pay for the multiple sites the webfolk ran but never updated. Because I know finding the truth is important to you. But... we HAVE taken your point, which you have made time and time again. I admit to not really considering it mainly because, as I've shared with you in PMs time and time again, I've gathered enough information to piece together my own opinion of Simone (rightly or wrongly) and at the end of the day, she just doesn't mean that much to me to follow up on an interview and scrabble together "proof" that she's a poor misquoted, misunderstood woman. And before you say that's a horrible attitude to have in life, again, as I mentioned in PMs to you, I am quite capable of distinguishing what's important in my life and what isn't, and acting accordingly. Which is to say, people and things that have merit in my life are given my genuine thought and eagerness to learn more. Simone Lahbib just doesn't fit in that category. And, to be frank, neither does Mandana Jones. Read the FC home page: but while we're serious in our appreciation, we're more likely to share a laugh... and For the record, while we are serious in our appreciation of Mandana Jones, for the most part, that appreciation is expressed with tongue firmly in cheek.... In the simplest terms possible? We're joking. We're talking about an actress (either Simone or Mandana) who worked on a British drama for three years that's been over for five. Did they leave an indelible mark on many people's lives, including my own? Absolutely. And perhaps that's one reason why I lean towards Mandana more than Simone- because I feel it meant as much to her as it did to me. But I'm absolutely positive that Simone doesn't really care what I think and I'm sure she'll carry on. Speaking of valid points... I don't recall you ever answering or considering questions I've put forward. Here they are again: -How about this: let's not make a comparison. Mandana and Simone are two different people coming from two different places in their lives as people. Let's just have Simone stand on her own. Let's not turn the blame towards the fans who don't have the insight to track down an interviewer to get the "real story". As long as I've been in this "debate", it's never, ever been pointed out that perhaps SIMONE is responsible for the (mis)quotes or the (mis)interpretations of her interviews. Not once. It's always been about : the media having some kind of agenda against her : the media misquoting her with regularity : the fans who have taken a few of her quotes out of context : the fans who should simply forget something she said years ago, because that was a different time and we shouldn't be held accountable for what we said years ago : the fans who don't take the time to find out "the truth" How about Simone? When does she get held accountable for words she said? For words she didn't say (but was apparently aware of) and not making the correction? For playing up one side of the audience while dismissing the other... depending on which side of the media she was on? LeeAnn Kriegh is one writer in a pile of writers who have talked to and spent time with Simone over the years. Her opinion isn't any more or less valid than any of those other interviewers. Have you contacted THEM? These words of Ms. Kriegh seem to be quite a revelation in regards to Simone. Rather than having a bunch of fans contacting her with a myriad of questions, why not ask her if you can post her correspondence with you? I can't imagine if the truth is so important that she would refuse your request, particularly if she's willing to correspond privately with every fan who contacts her anyway. As usual, this got much longer than I had planned, when I'll I've wanted to say all along is this: I've heard your argument and respect you for it. No, it hasn't changed my mind, but I'm not trying to change your mind, either. I'm not sure what's so wrong about agreeing to disagree. -coolbyrne
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mjay
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People
Apr 11, 2007 12:45:32 GMT -5
Post by mjay on Apr 11, 2007 12:45:32 GMT -5
Well, a "pattern of behavior" is what Jenny's points are largely based on. Mandana not answering fanmail, repeatedly referring to the same fanmail, leaving events earlier than others, not complimenting Simone in her q/a, etc. These are actions and inactions that could be interpreted, right along with Simone's good and bad quotes, in different ways. It's not just the fanmail. That's just one example. The suggestion seems to be that one set of behaviors (Simone's) should be scrutinized and shown in a negative light and the other (Mandana's) should be wholly dismissed.
i don't hold my opinions as fact, but i do believe i'm more informed about Simone than you are because i found one more source than you have. i really just wanted (in my innocent youth of a few days ago) to say, 'hey, check this out. you can find out more about Simone from a pretty good source, which might result in all sorts of interesting insight.' That apparently is an awful and ridiculous thing to say.
The argument that i haven't talked to every interviewer is neither here nor there. Quite the red heron. If i say i learned something really intriguing about Abe Lincoln from the latest bio on him, what good is it to say, 'yeah, well that's not the whole truth. have you read every book ever written on him? have you talked to him? have you read all his papers and speeches?' That's all a distraction from actually listening and considering reading the book yourself to see what you might make of it. Saying we don't know everything is no excuse for not trying to know more. And saying a source may not be 100% reliable is no excuse either. Nothing is 100% reliable, not even talking to the person directly. So its another red heron that gets thrown up anytime someone wants to dismiss an idea or a possibility of learning something they may not want to know.
You say its never been pointed out, so let me point it out: Simone is responsible for her words and actions. She dealt with many of them in her latest q/a. You dismiss that q/a for reasons that i strongly believe are based on invalid assumptions. You could ask the writer why Simone didn't make the correction earlier. The answer would surprise you, whether you believed it or not. But your other statements about Simone (that she dismisses one side of her audience, that she plays to different sides of the media) are just attacks that don't merit argument. If you wanted resolution, you'd be proactive about finding more information.
The PMs i exchanged with the writer were incredibly revealing to me. But they were also private. If you want to know what was said or what she thinks, ask her. Ask her if you can post her answers on the board. i know you won't, but i'm not at all what that proves aside from a stubborn resistance to information you may not enjoy hearing.
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Apr 11, 2007 13:51:11 GMT -5
Post by romanmachine on Apr 11, 2007 13:51:11 GMT -5
It's red herring, not red heron, and I think it's quite rich that you decide to being a logical fallacy into an argument that isn't even within screaming distance of logic.
mjay, I'm so glad that you've gotten the resolution that you so desperately needed to this Simone debacle. But, and this relates to a point you make yourself, if we wanted resolution, we'd go get it. Since we have no interest in doing that, what does that tell you? We. Don't. Care. Just because someone might make a snarky comment about Simone from time to time doesn't mean that anyone here is emotionally invested in her.
I know I occasionally make snarky comments about other celebrities - Tom Cruise, Mel Gibson, all of the usual subjects. Do I have any desire to find some kind of resolution concerning them? No, for two reasons. One, I don't care. When my head hits the pillow at night, I'm not concerned in the slightest with learning the "truth" about any celebrity. Two, I know that my snarky comments on a message board will have absolutely no effect whatsoever on the celebrity in question. Do you honestly think that anything we say, whether favorable or not, will affect Simone in anyway? If the answer is yes, then I find that incredibly arrogant. Simone Lahbib will be just fine, whether you champion her cause or not. Just as she'll be fine if the members here continue to make a snarky comment from time to time.
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mjay
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People
Apr 11, 2007 14:09:41 GMT -5
Post by mjay on Apr 11, 2007 14:09:41 GMT -5
Lord, that's so embarrassing. Red herring it is. Wrong term, but right idea.
i don't see what's not logical about my argument. You may not agree with it, but i don't think its illogical. You say "we don't care" ... I guess you can speak for everyone except me. Fine, but i do care and it seems like there's no harm in suggesting to others who care that there's a cool source out there for more info. And sure, Simone will be fine regardless, but that's another red herring. And, sure, you don't care, or only care enough to say snarky things, but that's another red herring. i am so enamored with the term now that i know it. Its always i don't care, i don't like you, i don't want to do it, what's the point, we can't know The Truth anyway, what's the harm in not trying to gain more info ... These are all distractions that send things in circles and fail to address the real points.
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Apr 11, 2007 14:36:31 GMT -5
Post by romanmachine on Apr 11, 2007 14:36:31 GMT -5
mjay, there are no real points in this because it's just one big fanwank. I guess telling you that I don't care about Simone just wasn't blunt enough. Let me see if I can remember your "real points" and address them specifically.
Will I contact the reporter to learn the truth about Simone Lahbib? No. Is there any harm in anyone else contacting her? No. Everyone is free to do as they please, in this matter. I, however, will not be taking the time out of my day to do so. Do I care what the reporter has to say? No, because I don't care about Simone. Could I be wrong about Simone? Yes. Do I care if I am? No. Do I care if you think I'm being unfair or judgmental or pig-headed? No. Am I harming anyone with my stance on the matter? No. Am I trying to change your opinion of Simone? No.
Those are my answers to your "real points." I cannot state them any more clearly than that. If you continue to attempt to change my opinion, it would just be foolish.
I say this with all sincerity and without a trace of snark - please, take a step back and re-evaluate your life. You have too much of your emotional wellbeing invested in an actress that you will never know. Please do this for your sake and the sake of everyone around you.
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mjay
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People
Apr 11, 2007 14:49:23 GMT -5
Post by mjay on Apr 11, 2007 14:49:23 GMT -5
Ummm ... i'm thinking that's a personal attack. A pretty rude one at that, and one that's based on assumptions about my life, of which you don't know anything.
i do hear what you're saying, and its totally fine that your not interested in Simone. Good on ya.
As to this:
Could I be wrong about Simone? Yes. Do I care if I am? No. Do I care if you think I'm being unfair or judgmental or pig-headed? No.
i just think it speaks for itself. Its not how i approach life but more power to you. As to whether it addresses what i said above in my long post, re: red herrings and such, i don't think it does, but you've got a right to your opinion. i am thankful for having a platform for saying what i think as well.
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May 24, 2008 14:43:19 GMT -5
Post by jilly2000 on May 24, 2008 14:43:19 GMT -5
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Jul 2, 2008 19:11:35 GMT -5
Post by jilly2000 on Jul 2, 2008 19:11:35 GMT -5
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Jul 3, 2008 6:55:05 GMT -5
Post by topcat on Jul 3, 2008 6:55:05 GMT -5
What a cock up. Check this out. A major cock up but highly amusing for all the wrong reasons! Could you imagine if this happened at The Oscars? Hilarious - especially if it happened to an a*se like Russell Crowe ;D
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Jul 27, 2008 16:29:15 GMT -5
Post by jilly2000 on Jul 27, 2008 16:29:15 GMT -5
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Jul 27, 2008 21:05:47 GMT -5
Post by coolbyrne on Jul 27, 2008 21:05:47 GMT -5
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Jul 28, 2008 3:12:49 GMT -5
Post by topcat on Jul 28, 2008 3:12:49 GMT -5
Times' restaurant critic Giles Coren's over the top leaked angry e-mail to his sub-editor is the talk of the cyber-world. Charming guy. Very Entertaining. Here read it: I really like Giles Coren - especially his 'supersizers go.. series' and his reviews are usually very witty. I completely see his point and think the emails are hilarious. His Dad used to be fantastic on Call My Bluff. She really does look fantastic, doesn't she? Not to take anything away from her figure, that bikini is brilliantly designed. Looks like a typical Bravissimo creation - constructed to flatter and enhance.
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Jul 30, 2008 14:50:01 GMT -5
Post by jilly2000 on Jul 30, 2008 14:50:01 GMT -5
Times' restaurant critic Giles Coren's over the top leaked angry e-mail to his sub-editor is the talk of the cyber-world. Charming guy. Very Entertaining. Here read it: I really like Giles Coren - especially his 'supersizers go.. series' and his reviews are usually very witty. I completely see his point and think the emails are hilarious. His Dad used to be fantastic on Call My Bluff. I've also enjoyed reading some of GC's reviews. I like a guy who speaks his mind. Those e-mails were gutsy. I haven't yet seen the 'supersizers go...series'. Will look out for them.
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