Reprising Nikki -the pros and the cons

[coolbyrne]

Since the recent interviews with Mandana, Simone, and Maureen, there has been talk amongst the fans about the two actresses and the writer/producer bringing back Nikki and Helen for a one-shot tv movie.

My initial reaction was, "Yeah!" These two characters, back in 1999-2002 set the bar by which all lesbian TV couples will be measured (in my opinion). And it's disappointing to look at the TV landscape five years after they left and see that not much has changed. (Let's forget The L Word, yeah?) So it would be wonderful to see them return.

And yet... would it really?

Just from a character perspective, what more is there to tell? Sure, we can find out what they've been doing all these years, but do we really need to know? Didn't we get the happy ending we wanted at the end of season three? It'd be a bit like having a sequel to Tipping the Velvet or Four Weddings and a Funeral. (I realize the context isn't the same, but you get my meaning.) The heart of their story predicated on the prison environment- it's what gave their story the angst and the drive, to the point where I often wonder if they would have made it as a couple outside of Larkhall.

From an actress perspective, I don't know what the benefit would be. Sure, it would be a high-profile return for both actresses, but do either one of them really need that now? Simone is doing well with Wire in the Blood, and without really getting into my personal opinion of her interviews, I think she said the right thing to the right outlet about reprising the role. And quite frankly, she didn't sound all that interested in the idea. ("I think a one-off would be interesting, as long as it's not too far down the line; otherwise, I think it's hard to recapture, and I wouldn't want to spoil what we had. If the script felt right, who knows. Never say never.")

As for Mandana, I think the initial response would be, it'd be a great opportunity for her to get back in the game on a larger scale than EastEnders, etc. But would it be a step back instead? I'm sure it would be easy to go back to that role and cash the cheque, but I don't get the feeling that's what Mandana's all about. (Though she does make the joke, "Having said that … [laughs], I might slightly eat my words, given that there’s now a baby in the frame.") She's worked to show she can be roles other than Nikki Wade. Do you take the money and have to go down that road again, or do you continue down the path you're on?


Thoughts? Opinions?

[ohmy]

My thoughts ...

I trust Shed to write a story worth seeing. They're not perfect, but this is Chadwick's "baby" and I'd like to see her get a chance to say more about Nikki and Helen.

I think there aren't enough (there's an understatement) lesbians in books, on TV, or in film. Getting Nikki and Helen back onscreen, perhaps showing them as an established couple, would be landmark television. It might please hard-core fans. It might not. But it would be seen by others, and I think that's valuable, at a very basic level in today's world.

I think writing to ITV to support the reprisal is important if only because it lets them know people want to see lesbian characters.

I don't know how interested Mandana, Simone, and Chadwick really are. Maybe one would turn it down for whatever reason ... but I feel strongly that they should get the opportunity to say no to it. I think fans have a little bit of power (a little bit), and I don't think it's right to assume what's right for the actors and use that as a reason not to push the network. Voicing support for the reprisal just seems like a simple step we can take to give them all an interesting choice to make.

[romanmachine]

Well, in my opinion, I don't think there's any need for a reunion. I mean, sure, I'd love to see N&H on-screen again, but honestly, what more is there to say? I think the best stories give you a satisfying ending, but also leave you wanting more (probably because the ending is so satisfying.) It's true that we didn't get to see a lot of happy moments between Nikki & Helen, and I think that leads a lot of us (myself included) wanting to see what their lives are like, now that they're together. But, I'm afraid that any kind of continuation of the story might take away from what we have to watch now. I wish I had the same trust in Shed that you do, ohmy, but I'm afraid I don't.

The problem, as I see it, is creating some kind of believable (meaning, not cliched) drama for them. Now, since their circumstances are different, it's possible Shed could do this. However, considering how soap opera-like the later seasons of BG were, it's also possible that we would end up with something that resembled really bad fan fiction and, I would hate to see that happen to such a moving story.

I completely agree with you, though, that there should be more lesbian (and not stereotypical ones) characters on television, and also, that we the viewers should be telling them that.

[justafan]

Sorry to rain on this parade but....it's not going to happen. There have been petitions and petitions over the years for a one-off update but nothing came of them. Fans of the characters of Nikki and Helen pleaded for just an off hand mention on Bad Girls of what became of the couple....as in "Chaz just got a postcard from Nikki and she and Helen are......". Never happened although I think somewhere along the line they (one of the Shed group) said they had done that but because of time constraints the scene ended up on the cutting room floor. Why do you think there is the weird phenomenon of "fan fiction"? Those poor people are just aching for a satisfactory ending. I think Mandana, Simone and Maureen are being diplomatic when they say there is a possibility of a reprisal of the Nikki/Helen roles. Too much water has run under the bridge. (I would love to be proved wrong though. Although, you're right romanmachine, these are the people who destroyed Bad Girls from the beginning of the 3rd series...do we really want to see what might spring from their minds? )

[topcat]

I agree that Mandana and Simone were being diplomatic when they said they would consider returning. I think Mandana said something along the lines of 'it would have to have something important to say'. IMO Mandana and Simone are well aware of the diabolical state BG ended in and that it was unrecognisable from the series they started out in.

For me, BG 1-2 were the exception to Shed's writing talent rather than the norm. You only have to look at the other stuff they have churned out to see that pantomime soap is where they really are.

I may eat my words if Mandana is offered a big role by them in something, but don't you think it strange that Shed made such an impact with those two actresses and yet, despite 3 new projects, have never cast them in anything else? They have re used Jack Ellis, Alycia Eyo and various other, less gifted, actors from their projects and yet the two whom they know have a huge fan base have never been cast again. I suspect it is more likely the actresses declining than Shed not wanting them to boost ratings.

I agree that it would be a step back for both actresses. IMO it is never wise to recreate a role. I want to see Mandana do period drama and comedy and prove how versatile she is. She was really starting to prove that before having Enzo and it will just take one major part to set her off again.

[ohmy]

Though there are good arguments on the other side, I'll stick with two that I think outweigh them:

-- I believe we should always take every opportunity to encourage networks to put more lesbians on TV.

-- I believe the writers and actors of Bad Girls are the best ones to decide whether the reprisal should be made or whether it's right for any of their careers.

For anyone who agrees with one or both points, it takes about one minute to voice your opinion here:
www.itv.com/page.asp?partid=1215

I don't know if the actors and Chadwick were being diplomatic when they all said they're open to a reprisal. Mandana's comments seem particularly forceful to me:

"I think there’d be a lot of interest for it. I think it’d be terribly interesting. ... I think the integrity of the story would be important to me. I wouldn’t really be interested just in a reprisal because you could make a lot of dough out of it and sell it globally. Having said that … [laughs], I might slightly eat my words, given that there’s now a baby in the frame. I would like it if there were any talk of it. I would really like it that they’ve come up with something interesting and a real development, that they’ve got something to say."

That, to me, is a woman who's saying quite clearly that she'd like to have a look at a script and decide if she finds it worthwhile. I think as fans we should do all we can to give her that opportunity.

[romanmachine]

That's interesting, Topcat. I didn't know that Shed had used other BG cast members for different projects. The only Shed production that I know of is Bad Girls and, even then, I've only watched the MJ seasons. The situation does make me wonder if Mandana and Simone both have turned down opportunities to work with Shed again, and, if so, why.

The bottom line for me is that I just don't trust Shed to write a reprisal with any integrity. As I said, I haven't actually watched the later series of Bad Girls, but I have read episode reviews and analyses and, in my opinion, Shed seemed to go for ratings over quality. Well, to be honest, I thought that began in series three. As much as the fan in me would love to see more from Nikki & Helen, I realize that their story is complete, just the way it is.

Oh, and I would love to see Mandana do some period drama! But, that's a discussion for another thread.

[coolbyrne]

Took this from the CURVE thread, as it seemed more appropriate to discuss it further here.

ohmy said:

Ah, well, it's good to be in the minority. I don't think our place as fans is to decide what roles are best for Mandana. I think she might laugh at that. We know so little of her and her circumstances that it's quite presumptuous.

And I think perhaps assuming a return to "Bad Girls" is beneficial to her career is also presumptious, considering, as you said, it's not really our place as fans to decide what decisions are best for her. See, works both ways.


And:

I see no argument for not encouraging the placement of a script in front of her, so she can decide if it's worthwhile or harmful. She can decide what's best. To decide not to encourage a possibility for her -- one she can turn down or accept -- is beyond my understanding.

Then campaign SHED. They're the ones that are going to have to write the script. By campaigning ITV, it's only going to put pressure on SHED to come up with ANY script.


Campaign ITV to put more lesbians on our screens. Doesn't it seem like a concession to say there should be more lesbian stories on TV, then settle for rehashing a story that we've already been given? Truth be told, I'd like to see NEW lesbian stories, NEW lesbian characters, because then it would appear that there has been progress made in that regard. Five years after the most groundbreaking lesbian storyline on TV and nothing seems to have changed. So the solution is to... bring those same characters back? We're willing to accept that as a sign of progress? Some might say, "Well, it's a start," but we had that start eight years ago. We should have been campaigning all those years in-between then and now- campaigning for progress and more lesbian stories and more lesbian characters- instead of settling for going back to the start AGAIN.

[ohmy]

Right, it'd be presumptuous to assume a return to BG would be good for Mandana ... or that it'd be bad. It does indeed work both ways. I only presume to think Mandana should have a chance to decide for herself if a reprisal would be a good thing for her to do.

I have a career, and I have some "fans" (okay, family) who think I'm good at it. That's a blessing. But when those fans start thinking they know better than me what work I should do next, then I think they're overstepping their bounds. If they cost me an opportunity at work because they were so sure it wasn't what was best for me, that they weren't even interested in having me take a look at it ... wow. Don't know if I'd laugh or cry.

Assuming the reprisal would be rehashing the same story is a little off-base, I think. Depends on how it's written. And assuming the story is finished as-is goes against what Chadwick said recently. She cut the story short to fit the actors' contracts, and she says she has more stories she'd like to tell.

Anyway, my whole point was just to say, write to the network if you believe it'd be good to get lesbians on the screen or to give Mandana and others a chance to reprise their roles, if they want to do that. It's a simple thing for people to do or not do as they see fit.

That said, I see now why there aren't more members here. It's a small group with unified thinking and underhanded comments about Simone. I wish you luck in that, but I find it distasteful. Please remove my membership.

[romanmachine]

*laughs* Boy, you just don't know how to handle a situation where everyone doesn't rush to agree with you, do you, "ohmy"? I have to admit, I thought you were above baiting people on message boards, but I guess I was wrong. Oh well. Godspeed and don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[coolbyrne]

If they cost me an opportunity at work because they were so sure it wasn't what was best for me, that they weren't even interested in having me take a look at it ... wow.

Because I know you'll be back, even as a guest to see what kind of response your comments will get, I'll respond.

How exactly am I costing Mandana an opportunity to reprise her role as Nikki Wade simply by voicing (on a board with so few members, as you pointed out) my opinion? Wow, I didn't know I had such power!! *insert Dr. Evil laugh here*

I don't recall anyone ever saying they weren't interested in her taking a look at a script. I do believe people have been voicing their reservations at a script in general, and stating, quite calmly, why they think a reprisal wouldn't work. That's what opinion and debate brings to a topic. No one is standing with a stick in the ground and saying, "I'm right, you're wrong, the idea will never, ever work and Mandana would be stupid to take the role! The end!!" You have stated why you think the reunion should occur. Others (myself included) have stated why we think it shouldn't. Neither is right nor wrong- at the end of the day, the powers that be will do what they want, with or without our "permission" or campaigning. But if you want to take your ball and go home, please feel free to do so.

[topcat]

Good grief, I thought we were having a general chat about whether we thought it a good idea for Mandana to reprise the role of Nikki. It would appear that, in fact, we are the spawn of satan if we don't agree it's a good idea to petition ITV

ohmy said:

underhanded comments about Simone. I wish you luck in that, but I find it distasteful. Please remove my membership.

Again, were comments underhanded? I express MY OPINION that I have not been impressed with Simone's roles since leaving BG. All the roles have echoes of Helen and I think she mumbles. I also think she gives interview answers according to the readership of the magazine who's asking the questions. Others disgree. That's life but I am entitled to the opinion and to express it. You have expressed the opinion that Mandana's post BG roles are minimal and you feel she's not happy. Fine, it's your opinion but I happen to disagree. Every single role has been competely different to the last IN MY OPINION.

You were given reasoned responses to your posts and, as far as I can see, everyone was respectful. You cannot force people to agree with you.

[endangeredspecies]

topcat said:

Good grief, I thought we were having a general chat about whether we thought it a good idea for Mandana to reprise the role of Nikki. It would appear that, in fact, we are the spawn of satan if we don't agree it's a good idea to petition ITV.

Oh dear, oh lor', oh blimey! I'm away skiing for a week and you're all falling out - naughty!
Well, here's my twopenn'orth. I am in two minds on this one, surprise surprise! I can remember how disappointed and frustrated I was when the 'to be continued' never materialised. I agree, the writing by then and many of the storylines were appalling... False expectation was created and I assumed the N/H storyline would carry on in some shape or form. I'm now glad that it never did as the series descended into farce.
There would have been plenty of scope for a link between the two and Larkhall. I could never see the bar in Scotland being a reality but Helen with some connection to the halfway houses and Nikki in the Chris T role would in my opinion have been viable. How their relationship developed had plenty of scope for drama with two such volatile characters in tandem; I could see stormy waters ahead.
Would it have worked then? Possibly, provided the writing was back to being as tight as in series 1. Would it work now? Probably not, too many years have passed, particularly here in Blighty.
As to why S and M have never worked with Shed again, haven't you seen FW and 4-8 of BG. Waterloo is slightly better but bears little resemblance to teaching as I knew it. That is full of Beeb regulars. The conception of BG was a one-off which was allowed to plum the depths by the end.
Like some others I would like to see Mandana in some role where she could show her talents to the full. There's plenty of scope in the UK for actresses her age, as Topcat has pointed out. It often takes an age for something to come to fruition, so she'd better get her skates on, there are a few folk out here waiting for more than a sighting in a commercial.
I trust I haven't offended anybody.

[topcat]

Rather than start a new thread, I thought I'd ask here what everyone thinks about the announcement that BG IS being developed by HBO?

I see that a lot of people seem to be thrilled and are already guessing who will play Nikki and Helen. I suspect that, whilst the story may be regurgitated in some form, the character names will be changed.

I know The Office transferred quite well - although I have avoided the US version - but so many other remakes have failed miserably.

[coolbyrne]

What I find really interesting is that HBO picked it up in the first place. I'm only going by their other prison show, "OZ", but if that's any indication, it will be an interesting transfer. What I mean is, Bad Girls originally started out rather gritty and had something to say about women's prisons. Of course, that went by the wayside as early as the third season. HBO will pick up the grittiness, but will they let it slide into camp the way the original did? And if they don't, then where will they go after season three?

Do we start a betting pool to see how long it takes someone to suggest Simone and/or Mandana do a cameo role? Or have I missed the boat on that one already?